The I Don't Even Like Women Podcast

Women are so Emotional- with Guest Kristen Boss

• Natalie Runion • Season 4 • Episode 1

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In this conversation, Natalie and Kristin Boss explore the complexities of women's experiences in entrepreneurship, emotional health, and personal growth. They discuss the challenges of navigating success, the emotional toll of change, and the importance of community and support among women. Kristin shares her journey from a successful businesswoman to a place of introspection and healing, emphasizing the need for emotional literacy and understanding one's stress responses. The conversation culminates in the introduction of Kristin's new venture, Sondera, aimed at helping individuals understand and manage their emotional health.


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Natalie Runion and Kristen Boss:

Well, I have my good friend, Kristin Boss here with me. And yes, that is her real last name. And yes, she is a boss, if you were wondering. em You're going to get to hear a lot from her, but I just want to take a minute and say thank you, Kristin. This is the first I don't even like women podcast and I can't think of a better friend to have here with me to talk through some of the lies that we believe as women uh about. ourselves, but then how that projects onto other women who we are meant to do community with. Now, you and I met when I moved to Colorado Springs and I am a hair girl. I love getting my hair done. I, that was my biggest fear moving from Cincinnati to Colorado was that would not find a good hair girl. And you ended up being just the absolute best. And I would come and sit in your chair and we would dream. We would dream about If we could break out of the hair chair, if we could break out of what I was doing at the time, which was full-time church staff ministry, if we had a clean slate, what would we do with our lives? And I think that's what women do best sometimes is dream together and you were a safe place to dream with. So thank you for that. Thank you for trusting me to share your dreams. And around the same time, our dreams started to come true and we did a lot together. We both were in the multi- uh level marketing world. You would sell me drinks. I would sell you leggings. It was quite the partnership as we were trying to figure things out. uh But Kristin, why don't we just take a minute and more than a minute. You take as much time as you need to tell the listeners a little bit about yourself uh and get to know her, you guys, because I have a feeling once we get off of this podcast, you're going to want to jump into her community as well. ah First, let me say I'm so honored. I had no idea I was like kicking this off with you, but I feel really honored that I get to share this really precious space with you. And it's very sacred. I think when women dream together and grow together, it's a very sacred thing to do together. And so it's been really fun watching you again from us just talking and dreaming when you were in my chair. And I'll never forget when we both said like, maybe we're just late bloomers. Like, do remember saying that to each other being like, maybe we're just, we're just late bloomers. And it's so true. And we both are walking out the reality that we could only imagine at the time. And so it's been really fun watching you and cheering for you, applauding you. So even sharing stages with you. And so, yeah, a little bit of my story is, I, you I was a hairstylist. My husband was, full-time ministry at the time as well. So you and I had that in common as well, just kind of sharing that while it was different, there was still just a lot of camaraderie built in that. so in that, we all know, you don't go into ministry to get rich. That's for dang sure. And so my husband and I, for a long time, for our first like seven years of marriage, we didn't even have a day off together. We were ships passing in the night just. with our work schedules just trying to get by. so uh you and I were in network marketing at the time. And I saw how that was done, how the network marketing space was done. I am naturally very good at um understanding people, how they work, social media. It makes sense to me. Communication makes sense to me. And also just some context for that is like, you spend 15 years listening to people just talk. about every aspect of their life. And listen, as hairstylists, we hear everything. We are the first to know, often before family when someone's pregnant. We are at funerals, we are at weddings. It's a pretty sacred work, although it's glamorous sacred. ah So, when you hear from that many people, you understand and kind of, you're able to look at patterns of how people think. how they make purchasing decisions, what holds them back, their fears and all those things. And so my therapist would say it's trauma to spot patterns and have intuitions to like read people quickly. And maybe that's true, but hey, oftentimes we use uh our pain to serve and it becomes our gift. And so um I saw a need in the market where I was like, you know, this industry isn't taught how to market well, they're just taught to, you know, go in your high school yearbook and message everybody the same gross message. And it becomes like, hey, I haven't heard from you in 10 years and you want to do what? And it's just, there's a lot of ick around it. But also for me, was in the ministry world. So at the time it was just like, well, can't go back to school. I can't go get another nine to five. So this is how I'm going to do that. And it did work because there was a season where Scott was unemployed. So for a year and a half, like what I made with network marketing covered his the lost income, but I knew I just wanted to help people. So I just started helping people on the side and they were just asking like, hey, how do you do this on Instagram? How are you talking about this? And I was just like, well, uh I wanna teach people how to do this well. I wanna teach people how to do this without chasing people, without being weird and gross. And so that's what I did. And it blew up. Like never in my wildest dreams did I think or imagine that it would become this very large company. And it did. um and kind of almost overnight, not really. There was a lot of struggle before that. So I went from like... broke struggling uh to literally having a large platform, being on a stage, a lot of money coming in rather quickly. um And that in and of itself uh can be very hard on someone's psychology, their sense of self. And this was all happening during pandemic. So at the same time, the world has shut down. I've become isolated uh and I'm having success in isolation. People have only context from the outside looking in of what they think is happening. And I'm noticing like just little comments, little subtle judgments are coming in from people I thought I was safe with. I think that was the hardest part. I'm like, I'm willing for a stranger to hate me, but for somebody that has walked with me and known me, but for them to suddenly have this label of me or see me in this way is... a deep, deep wound. It's a betrayal that's hard to process. all this, it grew very quickly. I cared very much about, it started with like, I'm just going to teach you how to market and sell well and how to do it ethically. And I'm going to be honest, there's a lot of mean girls in network marketing. There is a mean girl vibe there. There's a lot of uh who's, I'll never forget when I went to my first convention and I saw all the top earners and they had these big, huge dangly earrings and spray tans and like they're dressed to the nines. And I felt like I was in high school all over again. And I looked, was like, I don't belong here. Like I, there was my 15 year old self immediately found herself in this convention being like, I don't look like them. I don't, I don't dress like them. I don't belong here. And then I just, started just seeing some things and I was just like, okay, but this But this is how some people genuinely need to make money. How do we do it ethically? How do we do it respectfully? How do we do it with integrity? And how do we do it well? And so that was my mission. And it grew well. um But then what happened was is I noticed that I started to feel less and less satisfied with teaching people how to just monetize online. That started to feel very, very empty to me. I started to... my soul started, like, it felt like was shriveling up and dying. I'm like, is this really what I'm put on Earth to do? Tell people how to build a brand and a presence on Instagram and make it all about their paycheck? And I feel like I became like, at the time, feel like I became kind of like the poster child for hashtag boss girl vibes in every sense of the world, of the word. And I got on a lot of stages. and all those things. And I will tell you, I was like at the height of success. I had the book, I had the money, I had not just one house, but two houses. I had everything I ever thought I needed to stop feeling so afraid and scared of lack. And uh turns out you can have a lot of money in the bank and still live your life in fear. in fear and insecurity and doubt and lack, which kind of blew my mind. ah so realizing, wow, money actually can't fix everything. um And I was actually, I felt more small, more afraid, because suddenly I had more to lose. Suddenly it was just like, but if I, what if I start speaking my truth at what cost? It all goes away. The money stops coming in. The book deals won't happen. The stages won't happen. And What's interesting is as I was dealing with this internally, I was noticing kind of a mirrored effect in my audience where I think they were tired of hearing just like, go out there, do more, be more, make more. I felt like there was this fatigue happening and I felt like I was contributing to the problem. And I was just like, and as I started coaching people, you you could talk to somebody about their business and while they're trying to grow their paycheck, but um Life, business isn't done in a vacuum, you know, and life isn't done in a vacuum. So how on earth could I tell someone to try harder when they are the caregiver of somebody who's going through terminal illness? How can I tell someone to just, you know, put aside your excuses and go girl, um when their marriage is in crisis? How can I do that? And I suddenly started to feel like I was bypassing their humanity. And I was like, I cannot do this. I cannot bypass the person just to talk about a paycheck. This is, I can't endorse this. And I think I was wrestling with that for a while. And it became so, and at the same time, what I built was I built a certification program because at the same time, I'm a nerd. So I read psychology books for fun. I read about emotions, neuroscience, and human behavior for fun. And so I started understanding more about emotions, what makes us tick, psychology. And I started to look at like, you you can hand somebody, tell somebody like, go out there and try harder, but like, why can't they? And so I realized, I'm like, well, we have somebody. with a story, they're walking around with a story or a wound. And we don't know that the reason why they're so afraid to post on social media is because what is at stake for them, we all can be like, ah, I'm just afraid of what people think. That's such a surface level reason. It's actually what's at stake here is a very, very primal need that is in us and it's the need to belong. And when we are judged or ostracized or misunderstood, what is immediately at threat is our belonging. And that goes deeply to how God made us, how we are wired. We are not meant to live in isolation. We are meant to live in community. And from the very beginning, like go back to like, we had our hunters, we had our gatherers, we had, you know, the village defenders, like you could not survive alone. So this goes deeply to our wiring. If I do not belong here, I will not be okay. So it's not as simple as just make a post online. It's like, listen, this could be a real visibility wound for somebody. This could be someone who's like, who will I lose if I show up in this way? This is what's at threat. It's crazy too, because I mean, you've written a book, I've written a book. I can remember just trying to wrestle with this fear of if I show up and I'm successful or I show up and I'm posting about this because stewardship is important when we've been given something to share, we need to steward it. But I just remember thinking, are people going to think I'm all about me? Or, you know, I went right into perception of what do I have to lose? I could lose my job. I could lose my friends. I could lose ministry. Do you think in your opinion that our brothers, that men struggle with the same thing when it comes to all these emotions that are surfacing from just a single social media post? Or do you think they think less about it? No, 100%, but it looks different. uh men will likely, so what I've been working on lately, and we'll kind of get to that, but men will, they may not say like, feel emotional about this. Women will say that. uh Men might notice they will feel uh a sense of, they might feel stress. Men really identify with the term stress. um Or, you know, they might come in with more strength uh to compensate for, um if I'm perceived as weak, then I need to make sure I come off as strong. Because my weakness threatens my, my perception of weakness then threatens my belonging among men. And then, so I do, it's still there. We are wired there. I just think how it shows up looks different. I think women shrink mostly. of as a form of self preservation. And I don't want to speak for all men, but I think it's more of a tendency for men to uh expand, puff out, like to be bigger. So women will shrink, men will be bigger to compensate being like, don't want this to be, I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't want to be perceived as weak because again, just going to how we're wired. if like, I know this sounds crazy, but it goes back to. our deepest roots of like hunters and gatherers, if a hunter is perceived as weak, okay, we can't rely on you for resources, they're ousted from the tribe. And so it looks different, like they lose respect from men. It's like, a man, maybe some toxic masculinity there as well. So there's a lot, there's a lot at play. yeah, so noticing that this was actually, that there was much deeper things at play for people. And I also could not stand the idea. I'm like, I'm sorry, listen, if you are successful by the world's metrics, but you are suffering in your soul, that is not success. If your marriage is falling apart, if you cannot have a conversation with your child, if you are nose deep in your phone 24 seven and you haven't made eye contact with a loved one in a while, I'm sorry, I don't care what's your bank account, that is success by no means. And I realized I had to make a departure from how I was showing up in the online space and realizing that I could no longer stand behind my own message. And knowing that I was going to, my gosh, disappoint people. Listen, it was probably six months of intense grief work realizing, because here's the thing, I often find that the parts of us that respond from our insecurity or how we show up in the world. So for example, the man that's puffing out, like, ah, know, ah, he will likely be praised by his fellow man for that show of strength, but it's not a true show of strength. So what it ends up doing is reinforcing false strength. So what ends up happening is if we show up as not our true selves, and then we are unfortunately praised, being that person, we receive more love, we receive belonging, we receive affirmation. Like imagine some women are like, I am praised, I am loved, I am safe, so long as I am small, so long as I am not rocking the boat, so long as I am not putting in a boundary, so long as I am not speaking my truth, I get to belong here. And so we have all this positive reinforcement that's kind of contributing to our smallness. And so for me, I was in my own toxicity of like, had to perform for my worth and I have to make sure I'm on and my way of coping in the world is busying myself. I'm an incredibly productive person and it is how I self-medicate. My work is how I self-medicate and I've had to work on that and be like, right, my productivity is often because I'm running from some part of me I cannot tolerate to be with in this moment. But what's interesting is look at all the positive reinforcement I get when I'm abandoning myself. I get the likes, I get the comments, I get a book deal, I get the money comes in, I get people. No one's gonna shame you for being a productive member of society, not a single person. So having to dismantle that part that's actually being positively reinforced by society, by culture, by yourself, it's just like, my gosh, how do I let this go? And so it is a massive grief. It is a death. It is, mean, like I have held my own funeral. I don't even know how many times at this point, but I had to also be willing to be like, am I willing for the sake of my soul, for the sake of my family, for the sake of being true to myself, am I willing to let go of all the things I once thought dear, which is, know, success or monetary security or those things, which are not wrong in and of itself, but I had put that on the altar of like, This is the only way I matter in this world. And so I had to do some deep reconciliation with myself and move into like, all right, I have no idea what's next, but I think I'm being asked to let go of this thing. And I honestly, I call the releasing of my last business was God's great rescue mission on my identity. Well, I was in the rooms in those days where you were at the pinnacle of what was perceived success. I stood on those stages with you and I watched the praise that you're talking about come from hundreds, if not thousands of your followers and those who believed in this business, which I want to affirm you was a beautiful business and pure hearted because I know your heart. And I know that as you're dismantling that, I just want to encourage you that that Thanks, friend. people's lives. And it was something that brought hope into a time in our society that felt hopeless through COVID, through people having to fend for themselves. You offered tools that were uh approachable, affordable. And I watched women with my own eyes be transformed because of your obedience to do this thing. And it's overwhelming. I can remember kind of standing there and being like, wow, this is... wild to watch. And I know that that impacts us emotionally when we know we're making such a difference, but then something inside of us be it the Holy Spirit, the Lord, our own conviction says, we've got to pull back, walk me through this because I knew you were going to counseling, you were doing the hard work. I met your counselor. She is a wonderful woman. uh But now we're getting to the point of the story where you're like, I've got to pivot, which is the name of your book. I ironically, but now purpose. Like that's hilarious because I wrote the book before my other pivot cheese. oh So this is a new pivot. So walk us through the emotions of having to let go of those thousands of women that were just so, I mean, they listen, they're like fans. I have to say it was really cool to watch. They're amazing women. But talk me through the emotion of having to let that go and move into something that felt very private and sacred. ah I'm not gonna pretend to say that it was a noble, holy exit. was a knock them out, drag them out, fight. um God had to pry it from my cold dead hands, for lack of a better term. um When I say it was the great rescue mission of my identity, I really do think it was because what happened was um it was a company that was built around my face. And inadvertently, I had commoditized myself as a product. I had lost myself as a human. um So I was literally something to, I was something to sell. Like people literally bought and said, we want access to Kristen. And that's like, there is only so much of me to go around, but living under that pressure became an impossible burden to bear. And any time I tried to like depart, bring in other people, they'd be like, but where's Kristin? No, we want Kristin's take. Every time there was an industry emergency, we're like, we need Kristin to come and tell her. I need to hear it from Kristin so I know what to think. And so the burden became so big. I noticed there was, hindsight I can say this, at the time I didn't know why it felt so bad. All I knew was I was spiraling and I was not OK. It looked like a mental breakdown. And to me, it was, I'll never forget the cognitive dissonance of being in a private jet 30,000 feet in the air, em wanting to take my life. I can't begin to describe to you that level of like, how am I here? How am I at the height of this? And I feel bankrupt in my soul. Like, I can't do this. And so, um It was a, and I had self-destructed in a few ways. And I, in my deep pain that I didn't know what to do with, because at the time I didn't understand that um because I had commoditized myself, because I was a product, I was a brand, I had kind of dissociated myself from seeing myself as a human, as a human being, as a deeply complex person. And so when things weren't going well in the business, Because I am the product, I am faulty, or I'm unworthy, or something's wrong. so, yeah, I self-destructed in ways that I'm not ready to go public about yet, but in ways that put the things I cared most about at risk. And that's when I knew I was like, I need help. And so I went away to a place called Onsite, and it's amazing. I couldn't recommend it more. I went and did deep, therapeutic work. to understand like how I had wrapped myself up so much in a business where I could not separate myself from the business, they were one in the same, and how I could establish the emotional and psychological safety to untangle myself from this business and be brave enough to let it go. So it was with a lot of support, a lot of... um It was not pretty. I'm not going to sit here and say like, one day God spoke to me and I just like gently opened my hands and said, let it be your will Lord. Like I'm telling you, it was like I put it on the altar. I ripped it off. I crawled. I bled. I sweat. It was, it was the end of myself and the beginning of I think God's greater plan for me. but he's like, we have got to, this has got to stop being the Kristen Bosch show, you know? And so I think for a lot of us as women, you know, we build something and we're so proud of it. You know, we, we built it out of thin air and it takes time and it takes resources and prayer. And we see what's been built and it's easy to just take ownership of it. And like you said, grab so hold of it that it has to be pride from our cold, dead hands. know people in ministry feel that way about positions, business owners feel that about their businesses. And even as parents, we feel that about our kids, right? Like we. have so many emotions and nostalgia and things tied to it. But there's a time where the Lord's like, no, I have something better. It might not be your best, but there's something that is better that I have for you. And if you'll release it, I want to give it to you. And that's wonderful. And I want to hear about this new thing that you're working on. But first, we have to acknowledge the fact that as women, when we evolve through success, through trial, through tragedy, that it is really hard for other women to receive that evolution from us. And I've gone through with raise to stay where I have been healed from church hurt. People don't like healed Natalie. They want hurt Natalie. And for you, you have gone through this massive life changing season and new business on the other side of it. And I've been watching your socials. And as you have been sharing your healing journey of releasing this being the face and identity of something to now sharing it with your amazing husband and being more generous in this. People are unfollowing. They're saying things like, I don't like this new healed version. I mean, they're literally saying this in the comment section. Walk me through what that has been like to watch these people who said, we want Kristen. It almost feels like the crowd yelling Hosanna at Jesus and then three days later yelling, crucify him. Like talk. percent Talk me through how that has been emotionally, spiritually, like, guys, we need to be able to admit this hurts us and it's okay to say this hurts. God, yeah. First of all, ah that's a great analogy. It's like, Hosanna, Hosanna, and then crucify him. But I was like, like the boss, babe, like you are our mascot. Like you are the mascot of hustle and girl boss and go big and we want this. And when I started a different message, it was like a We don't want this. We thought you were here to make us all rich. You're here to now make us whole? We didn't sign up for that. And I imagine the same of even Jesus's disciples were like, you're gonna free us from Rome, right? They had such a political idea of what Jesus was up to do. And he's like, actually, no. So they're like, you're here to make us rich, right? Actually, no, because what good is it, what good is it if you gain the world and forfeit your soul? And so, yeah, so it, first of all, I think I had to first be willing to, I think because I had done so much work with myself that I was finally willing to be brave enough to be like, can I stand behind this new version of me? Am I willing to hold this space for myself, knowing it's tender, knowing it's fragile? knowing that people are going to be deeply triggered by and upset by how I now show up. And I have even come out to even say, I even had one post that said, I can't remember if it said, I'm sorry, like I was tone deaf and I'm sorry. And I named all the ways I felt I was tone deaf as a leader to where I was. bypassing their emotions, bypassing their complexity as a human, bypassing trauma, illness, family crisis, all for the sake of a paycheck. And I'm like, forgive me. And some were very like, wow, I didn't even realize, thank you, that there was healing there. But then there was some that like, awesome, you just apologize, you just gave me ammunition. to be, like now I'm gonna name why I feel betrayed by you. But here's the thing. Here's why we are so triggered when we see someone grow. Because all we are doing is holding up a mirror. And it is so much easier to attack the person holding the mirror than look at our reflection and see our own work that needs to be done. Especially when someone identified with the toxic version of us. Like, but I identified with that. And then suddenly you change and you're naming what was toxic about that, they also feel named. You're like, wait, hold on, you're calling me out. I thought we had an understanding. And so of course it's triggering for them. And of course they're gonna send me emails and say, I'm not terribly into this therapy moment of yours or. therapy movement of yours and put it in quotations and say, I'm unfollowing and say like the most asinine things where I'm like, would you say this? If you like, would you say this to my face? Say this to my face. Like, and so I've had to like, man, like the things I've had to, I've let myself weep. Like I know what it's like to armor up. I have been that person that responds from anger. Like my fight response kicks in real fast. I can defend. I can be sharp. Oh, God, I can be so sharp with my words. I'm very good with my words. And I have had to learn to be like, oh, we're going to just take a breath for a minute here before I respond to this. I think there's a sense of, I've read that with public platforms, people feel a false sense of familiarity where they feel like they're closer to you than they actually are. So therefore they feel like a sense of permission to just give you their full unfiltered thoughts and they feel like it is their right. And I'm like, guess what? It is also my right to mute you, block you, not respond. That is my right too. It's healthy boundaries. It's emotional IQ. We've talked a lot about, you know, being emotional, it's not wrong, but when we don't have control over our emotions and we run into rooms and we light things on fire, which is what people do in comment sections every single day on social media. But the emotional IQ and self-regulation it takes to not retaliate back is a huge sign of growth. What would you say has been the greatest point of growth for you personally in the last few months. Hmm. I think uh letting myself stay soft em because it would be so easy for me to armor back up, to be angry, to be bitter, to write a very cutting 20 swipe carousel and be as articulate and concise and cutting as I can. Listen, I can do it with the best of them. My work has been to stay soft and I have learned healthier ways to regulate, healthier ways to release the pressure valve. Because to be honest, writing that 20 slide carousel is a stress release. It does regulate, but we have to ask, this form of how we are trying to regulate our stress, does this cause further self-harm? Like if I were completely calm, If I took a shower and napped and had a bite of something, would I be proud of this? Probably not. I think our moms really knew what they were talking about when they said, why don't you just take a shower and sleep on it? Like, listen, take a shower. Take a shower. It's the ultimate reset. So for me, my work has been to stay soft and know the safe places to regulate. So I have invited my husband into regulating with me now, being like, I feel really hurt. um And that has not been me usually. I'm usually a very hyper independent, I can do it woman. And so even finding softness with my husband and naming, I'm really hurting. I'm spinning out. I need to be held. I need, I need, I need a hug. Can I process this out? Um, so yeah, that's been a huge sign of growth. And my husband would say that too. He's like, I, you're naming when you're hurt, you're not bottling up and like kind of putting on this tough exterior again. It's cool, know, because, you know, one of the lies we believe is that women are just too emotional. We say it, women are so emotional, but God made us with emotions. God gave us these emotions. And obviously Satan wants to be right there to take those emotions and just, you know, rob us of joy and peace and happiness. But what you're talking about is a godly emotion that when we surround ourselves with the right people, the right tools, the right uh prayer times, the right showers, that We can live in these emotions and not apologize for them, but be able to say like, man, like God has given me this passion for a reason. He's put this holy anger in me to fight for things that are worth fighting for. And sometimes just having the right tools in place to help us manage those things can be a life changer. Now you guys are still in the very early days of this new thing. And I can say from watching you that you have self-regulated so beautifully on social media, because I have been watching from afar, ready to come in and like throw down in the comment sections myself, but I also cannot ruin my reputation. So I have just blessed and blocked. um But how is it now? Tell everybody what you guys are working on, what it is that as much as you can, because it's still fairly new, but tell us what this new season looks like. Well, let me go back and revisit your comment about women are so emotional. I think this is a vital conversation to have. uh And I think some women have lived in areas, maybe they grew up in that, like you're too emotional. um We hear it with women in leadership. Women can't lead because they're so emotional. The reason why I'd never trust a woman is because of her emotions. um emotions are. not unique to gender. They are not. um A woman is not born with more emotion than a man. Now, I think that might shock some people. But here's the thing. When we say, if someone were to say to me, women are so emotional, I'd want to ask two questions. I'd say, one, how is that a problem? Like, tell me how that's bad. And likely, which would lead into the second point, it's likely the emotion itself is not. the problem, likely how they, the reason they are saying that is because of how they have watched women manage or express emotion in unhealthy ways. Therefore they have labeled women as emotional as the problem. And men also are emotional, but there is socially acceptable ways for men to emote that emotion. Anger, rage, stoicism, silence, like, That emotion is manifesting there as well. But we live in a world that has kind of uh assigned a certain type of like acceptable codes of emotion. We'll say that, acceptable expressions of emotion. And I think there is a sense of women are sometimes unfairly held to those codes of expression. Like what is a healthy code of expression of an emotion? um All it is, is emotions only become a problem. When we are hijacked by them, we do not regulate and we make poor decisions from those emotions. Now, God has given us emotions. I believe that we are deeply feeling people. We have a God who is deeply feeling. God, read the book of Psalms. Like you wanna talk about a full emotional like uh scale, just listen to David for half a second, you know? And so for this, it's just like the problem is not emotion. And we've made that the problem long enough because what better way for Satan to have an agenda than to make your feeling a problem? Than to make you, because then if your feeling is a problem, then you should probably stop feeling. And then if you stop, I just wonder if emotion is the problem and if we shut that out, maybe I wonder if there's areas where we are shutting out how the Holy Spirit speaks to us. Where then is discernment? Like, So if we're gaslighting ourselves out of our own emotional experiences because like, that's wrong, I'm not reliable. No, no, no, no, no. What does it look like to honor the emotion, hold space for the emotion and then regulate the emotion in a healthy way? And then from a calm place, because here's what, psychology lesson, this is my nerd side in the set segues really well into what we built. So we have our feeling brain and our thinking brain. When someone drops a lovely comment, to one of us in our comment section or sends that email or says that thing, we immediately move into our feeling brain. Unless you like aren't triggered by it, but when we say triggered, all it is is we suddenly have a release of stress hormones in our body that is telling us we need to act, there's a threat here. And by the way, a sense of belonging is like when your sense of belonging is at risk, that is a threat to your body on the most primal level. So your body's gonna move Oops, sorry about my calendar, but your body's gonna move into a fight, flight, freeze, or fawn state, period. So some people, as soon as they're triggered, they're gonna move into a fawn state. They're gonna do whatever they can to appease that person's anger with them. They will apologize for things that they didn't do wrong. will like, let me appease, let me appease, let me appease, freeze. They will ghost. They just kind of like remove themselves from the conversation and they are the person that like, I'm just gonna hope this blows over. They will not. They will not confront it. They will not talk about it. It's just like, goodbye. They're gone. We have our flight. They're going to busy themselves with that. They will scroll. They'll go do something else. They're just gonna find something else to do. They don't shut down, but they're gonna find something else to do. And then we have our fighters. You and me girl, like I've got my fight. My fight response kicks in real fast. I'm like, listen, you threatened my tribe. You threatened my belonging. Gloves up. Let's go. This to me, it's like, I'm going to fight the bear. What I'm going to do is fight to belong. And what's actually happening is this is your body responding to stress hormones flooding your body. That's all that's happening. And so if we have not learned how to actually help our stress hormones lower the adrenaline, the cortisol that says we have to fight for our lives here, even though the grizzly bear is really just Karen with her keyboard on the internet, our brain doesn't care. We have to actually learn to be like, okay, there's not a threat here. I actually need to breathe. I need to regulate. And when that happens, when the stress hormones finally are like starting to lower, we move into our thinking brain. Because by the way, if you've ever tried to reason with a toddler who's having a mount down, it has logic ever worked. It has never worked. It is the same for adults. It is the same for adults. So when our emotions are high, logic and reason is low. Why? Because our brain, that's how our brain works. And so again, we have to be able to calm the feeling brain, realize there's no threat, we're safe. So it might mean, that means breathe, get a hug, take a shower, uh put your hands in cold water and shake it. It actually helps regulate your body, walk away, whatever it is, there are ways to regulate, to signal to your body there isn't a threat. From that point, we're able to bring our prefrontal cortex, the front of our head, where we make actually reasonable decisions that comes back online. And from there, we make. informed decisions, we are able to discern, we're able to ascertain and strategize, like what is the healthy solution here? So for me, when I see people just going off, I'm just like, this is just somebody in like a full blown, it's a toddler tantrum in an adult body, and they have not, this person, all they are doing is seeking safety with stress hormones flooding their body in the only way they know how. And so, And I feel like when we have that lens, so for me, when I watch somebody go off, I am able to look at them from a different way and be like, okay, what's, something's at risk to them right now. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's their sense of belonging. Maybe it's a sense of like security, their identity, their food and shelter, whatever, like paycheck, paycheck's at stake. We're gonna watch a fight flight response kick in. You're gonna see it happen. So for me, I'm like, okay, as unhealthy as it is. This person doing this behavior, all they are doing is trying to regulate a stress response in their body. And this is how they are trying to reestablish safety for themselves. And for some people that looks like I have to gain control of this situation. That is the only way I feel safe. Some is like, have to make sure everyone's in harmony and getting along. That's the only way I feel safe. The other person is like, I just need to disappear from the room and not be noticed. That's the only way I feel safe. And the other person is like, as long as I don't have to feel what's going on, I'm safe. So we have like everybody that comes into these four unique stress responses. And so what we have is like a melting pot of like everybody in a stress response. You just watch the comment section for a day. And like usually the nasty ones are the fighters. showing up in the fight, you know, and, and maybe you might have some being like, I'm sure she didn't mean it. Are you like the, the, we have our precious fawns and there are little baby people pleasers that are like everybody just get a blessing. We need you. We love you. Like we need our peacekeepers, but oftentimes our peacekeepers does this at the expense of their truth, at the expense of their boundaries, at the expense of their health. So what have we built? So I knew this, I watched this, I was watching everybody run around. In every area of their life, I noticed like em everything was a product of their stress response. Everything was a product of how they were able to regulate emotion and name emotion. But here's the thing, what I noticed in coaching hundreds of thousands of people is very few adults have emotional literacy. If I was to say, how does that make you feel? They were unable to name an emotion they were feeling in their body. Most have a very limited library of emotions, like angry, happy, sad, mad, know, afraid. Like it's pretty limited. So what I found was because when I would say, how are you feeling? How does that make you feel? They'd be like, well, I just feel like nobody cares about me. I'm like, that's not an emotion. That's a story. Or they'd be like, I just feel like I don't matter or I'm more of this. I'm like, OK. but that's not an emotion, that's a story. Tell me when you're telling yourself, I don't matter and I don't belong here, tell me what's happening in your body. And I will tell you, I had adults sit with me for five minutes in complete silence at a loss of how to name what was happening in their body. All they know is that I don't belong. That's the loudest thing that's happening. And so from there, I was just like, this is what we need. Because guess what happened? are also, we are a product of a generation that didn't talk about feelings. that was raised by the silent generation. so in some ways, think the Gen X and millennials, we're doing some generational healing as far as being willing to be an emotionally literate generation. Thank you, Jesus. So this is deeply gospel. When we look at this too, it's like, tell me that Jesus wasn't a deeply feeling man. And so what do we do with these feelings? And so what we say is like, As humans, we're born with all of the feelings, but none of the skills and how to handle the feelings, what to do with those feelings. And if we weren't parented in that way, if we weren't taught that way, we actually have the assignment to reparent ourselves from love, from compassion, and actually being able to name, I'm angry, and that's an appropriate emotion. Okay, what do I need to know here? What's a response I want to have? And learning to be with ourselves, just like we have to be with our kids when they... When they fall down and off a bike, what do they want? They want comfort. They want to know like, of course that hurts. Of course you fell off. Oh, they want a little kiss on the little boo boo. Like we have to do that for ourselves. So what we built was, um, a company that helps people understand their unique stress response. Like, Hey, first of all, are you fond fight, flight or freeze? We all have a dominant one that we run to most of the time. Of course, each situation you might be like, freeze might pop up, Fawn might pop up, but, and then from there there's actually, three to four different subtypes in each category. know, fight has three different subtypes. And so what we did was we're like, what if we can teach people how to, they learn their unique stress response, they learn their unique subtype of a stress response, and then we actually help them understand how to rewire and work with their stress response so they can stop lighting their lives on fire because they don't know how to pause. regulate and be with themselves to actually get back into their logical brain and maybe make decisions they like. This goes to everything, Natalie. This is like, do you reach for sugary things? It's a form of dysregulation. It's like your body's seeking dopamine, some sort of feedback loop that you're okay or whatever it is. Why are we reaching for the drink? Why are we scrolling on Amazon? Why are we shopping? Why are we trolling on the internet? Why are we gossiping? Do you know that is actually, listen, You want to talk about women are emotional and women and I don't even like women. Do you know the psychology of gossip is actually about how we establish belonging in a tribe? Because it's easier psychologically to build belonging through judgment than through values. I mean, I'm not even surprised and I'm not even surprised that it's such an issue within the church because you're right. The church is its own tribe. The church is its own culture and community. And, and, you know, I always say that gossip is just the ego demanding to get attention when it has nothing important to say, but like you're right. There's a belonging over judgment. There's a, a bonding over judgment because we don't want to look in the mirror like you were referring to earlier. Yeah, every time we gossip, what's actually happening is we're asking ourselves the question, do I still belong here? Because if I'm in agreement with you, then I get to belong here. Because we're all agreeing that that over there is bad. And then we also get, it gives us positive reinforcement that we get to, we're still a part of the tribe, we're still here, we matter. And so like your church, if you really think about it, this is why, this is why. willing to ask deep theological questions is so deeply terrifying and why most people don't because it it threatens our sense of belonging to the place we currently see our tribe. So if you are suddenly asking yourself questions that you know maybe your church's theology or doctrine doesn't agree with, this is not about pissing off your pastor. This is about suddenly getting the silent treatment. on Church Brunch from your tribe. We are talking about survivalism 101. And this is why people are so deeply afraid to actually challenge, do I believe this? Why do I believe this? Is this okay? What if I disagree? Because oftentimes to disagree is to not belong, especially in Christian circles. Whew. Listen, I'm going tell you right now, guys, um this is like a class lecture 101 on emotional health, on all of the things that like I'm learning things here. And I know that these conversations, they have to keep happening because it's exposing the very things that have kept so many of us in that fight or flight state that so many of us find ourselves not just in ministry, but in life as parents, as business owners, like These are these aha conversations where we're like, first of all, I'm not alone. Second of all, I'm not crazy, which we've convinced ourselves were crazy. And finally, we just kind of find ourselves in this place of like, I don't know what my next steps are. so Kristen, as we close out today, what advice would you give the woman who has been told that she's too emotional or that she can't do something or that she's too old and she can't start the new thing or she can't talk about her feelings. I mean, all of these things that we believe, what is just some really strong encouragement that you would give to a fellow sister today based off your last year of just growth? think if someone is condemning you wanting to be bigger, I think you have to be brave enough to ask, what do they gain when I stay small? Because they're obviously gaining something when you stay small. So you have to be willing to ask, what might they gain if I stay small? And then who else might be blessed if I decide to be big? um And then this idea of like, we tend to shame ourselves. It's the place we most go to. And by the way, there is no shame for those who are in Christ Jesus. Thank you. And it's just like when you want to run to shame, know that that is not of God. And you can thank God for how you are wired. If you are a deeply feeling person, I want to actually maybe offer you to have a reframe. Maybe you've been shamed for it your whole life. Maybe you are a deeply discerning person. Maybe you are a deeply empathetic person and bless you for that. Like I'm wondering if you have been, if a spiritual gift of yours has been squandered because you have been unfairly labeled as too emotional. So to shame yourself for saying I'm too emotional would be to actually shame the creator for how he has wired all of our bodies. It's like, listen, maybe, like you cannot help your fight flight response. Hey, that's kept you alive for a long time. God gave it to us for a reason. We're meant to outrun the grizzly bear. We're meant to stay alive and stay safe. Like thank you God for helping us. But we also have a responsibility. Like, You are not wrong for how you are wired, but you are held responsible for what you do with your wiring, how you do respond to those feelings. So we can take accountability without shame and understand ourselves with compassion and be like, all right, now that I know better, I can do better. So that's my encouragement is like, do not reach for the shame stick. That is not of God. Compassion and curiosity and ask, I would say invite God into your emotions and say, God, how? Give me evidence. of how my emotions have served at times. Where have my emotions led to areas of discernment or where someone felt seen, heard, loved, mattered? And I think you can start to have a healing work there with how you see yourself. Well, I hope that you guys have all been encouraged as I have today. Kristin, let people know where can they find you to follow you and join in what God's doing in this new season. Yeah, so listen, our new company, it's called Sondera. And uh what it is is, again, you learn about your stress type and how to rewire it how to actually be with your nervous system. How do we measure across six different areas of your life? So it's productivity, career, finance, relationships. We literally help you understand how your stress response impacts every area of your life. So if you're like, I want to know what my stress response is, we have a free quiz. You could just take it. will. I'll give this. We'll have it in the show notes for you. Just follow that link. free quiz, can learn a little bit about yourself. And then if you feel like Sondera is a place you can call home where you can learn to return to your true self, then we'd love to serve you in there. That's beautiful. Well, I'm so proud of you, friend, and I'm proud of you and your whole family. And it's been an honor to watch you from afar and up close. We no longer live in the same city, but we are woven together as Sacred Sisters. So thank you so much for spending this time with us guys and go check out my friend, Kristin Boss. All right, everyone be blessed.